her-roses-never-fall:

eruthiawenluin:

flowerdeann:

eruthiawenluin:

saelyg:

her-roses-never-fall:

flowerdeann:

watch them not address the fact that dean is stepping into hell again………………and having to think about all the trauma he went through……………but lol deans suffering is not important i guess……..

If they don’t bring up Dean’s time in Hell I will be pissed. Dean going to Hell was a traumatic, life changing event. Fuck, it was a universe changing event. It deserves to be discussed in narrative and it never is. After ‘On The Head of a Pin’, it kind of just poofed from existence. 

They didn’t make any attempt to discuss it during the Mark of Cain arc, even though they very easily could have and probably should have given how well it would fit thematically.

Meanwhile, Sam got two full seasons dealing with his time in The Cage and now he’s gotten to openly discuss that trauma, not once, but three God damn times. 

It’s so ridiculous how they try to ignore Dean’s time in Hell which is arguably more important to the storyline than Sam’s time in Hell. And Dean didn’t have anyone to help him when he came back, no support, nothing–Sam spent the whole time after Dean came back betraying him, lying to him, making him feel like crap, calling him “weak” and rolling his eyes on one of the few occasions Dean tried to talk with him about it(not to mention the number of times other people “boo hoo’d” about it), whereas, as usual, Sam had Dean, who tried to help deal with the effects.

Sam was supportive of Dean when Dean came back from Hell. I don’t know if you just skimmed over it or something, but remember how Sam tried to help Dean deal with it throughout all of season 4? He asked Dean if he wanted to open up about it. Sam was there for him. Dean chose to open up to Sam only once or twice. And when Dean did, Sam was completely supportive of him. Sam never used Dean’s time in Hell against him or anything and he did all he could to help him. It was Dean’s choice whether or not to let Sam in. There were a couple occasions where Dean did choose to, and there Sam listened and was there for him. Sam hiding his working with Ruby from Dean has nothing to do with Sam actually being there for Dean. Furthermore -and I explained this in much detail last night as well- but Sam never called Dean weak in the sense that he had no willpower or strength. In fact, when Dean opened up to Sam and told him he tortured souls for 10 years, Sam commented on how he held out for a full 30 years and that he didn’t need to be stronger or something. You say that Sam called Dean weak all season long, but the only time anything like this happened was in “When the Levee Breaks.” Sam did not think of Dean as weak in the sense that he had no willpower or strength, nor did he say that. Sam said that Dean wasn’t strong enough to take down Lilith because of this (copied and pasted from my own post):

“I’m going to paraphrase someone when I say this. Sam didn’t choose Ruby over Dean. You might think that sounds like plain as plain ignorance, but I’m going to support that with actual, valid reasoning.

• Sam asked again and again for Dean to join him and Ruby in saving the world- the only plausible way to do it
• Dean perceived Sam working with Ruby as a betrayal, but it wasn’t
• Sam and Dean were lead to believe that killing Lilith would prevent the apocalypse
• Sam wanted to do it because he had powers that could kill her and was the only one willing to do it that was powerful enough to, since the demon-killing knife wouldn’t have worked on the First Demon like it wouldn’t work on a Knight of Hell- same reason it was Dean who killed Abaddon and not Sam
• Dean wanted to do it with Bobby because he thought Sam’s tactic was self-destructive and turning him into something “other”
• “Sam choosing a demon’s words over Dean’s”- it wasn’t Ruby’s words, it was fact that everyone has acknowledged and accepted that Sam could kill Lilith
• The angels told Dean they believed it would be Dean that would stop the apocalypse- a half truth
• Dean believed the angels -even though he thinks they come off as “shady politicians”- and took it as “I can kill and will Lilith”
• He did it in part because he thought Sam’s path was self-destructive and that the loss of Sam would be the cost of killing Lilith
• Dean is desperate to believe there’s another way that will not harm either of them and falls for the lie
• Sam is aware that he, being the only one of Azazel’s Chosen left in the world, is the only one both willing and capable (because he has immunity to demons’ powers and powers of his own) to take down Lilith
• Sam didn’t think Dean wasn’t strong enough in the sense that he wasn’t strong or good enough but in the sense that Dean literally did not have an available weapon or power that could take down Lilith
• Sam did not choose specifically Ruby’s words over Dean’s but rather logic and reasoning
• Dean wanted to kill Ruby, who was the only one able to get information on Lilith and her whereabouts that wasn’t an angel who would be unwilling to actually give information away at this point
• Sam saw this as Dean trying to kill their only information source, ally -common enemy and all that- and needlessly endangering their chances of finding and killing Lilith
• Sam never saw Dean as “worthless and a terrible hunter” and that is not why he didn’t think Dean could be the one to end the apocalypse- though he did think Dean could help end it- and thought Dean didn’t understand, which is why he kept trying to explain his purpose to him
• Sam has promoted Dean’s self-worth over the years
• Sam has never told Dean that he’s a terrible hunter, he’s aware -and so is Dean- that they’re both pretty good hunters”

Tell me what occasion Sam rolled his eyes when Dean tried to talk about it because I have no idea what episode this happens in. I will go back to rewatch it if somebody tells me. Until then that remains unproven but not disproved, either. I can’t counter something if you don’t give me anything to counter, nor can I explain it from a non-Dean victimization pov. (Not that being a victim is a bad thing, as I fear I’ll be accused of thinking, but that y’all want to look at it from a perspective that shows it that way in its entirety to prove your point that Dean deserves better. That’s just how arguments are done.) 

Sam did have Dean to help him when Sam came back from Hell, and Sam did let Dean in, except for when he thought he would only be a burden. Dean went along with Sam pretending everything was alright, whereas Sam knew Dean wasn’t alright and tried to get him to open up about it on several occasions, as he does in plenty of other situations as well (John’s death for example.) 

The point is that Sam didn’t just “call Dean weak and roll his eyes at him.”

Sam’s time in Hell is actually incredibly relevant to this storyline. But Dean’s is also. because he’s been there before. I also thought about how this is Dean’s first time going back. It was my second thought when I saw the promo pictures a few days ago and with the extended promo, behind “thank God they’re not playing off Sam’s time in Hell/trauma as we feared, based on the first promo considering the Christmas special stuff.” It’s more likely than not that they’re going to mention it- this upcoming episode looks like it’s going to focus a lot on the trauma of the boys and everything. However, this particular situation pertains to Sam because it’s his torturer they’re dealing with and that he’s currently trapped with, though that’s not to say Dean doesn’t have a history with Lucifer, but Sam’s is greater in size and more personal. 

Also, before anyone says anything, Sam does still remember his time in Hell. Once again, copied and pasted from a debate last night:

“Sam does, in fact, remember Hell. Not only is it implied when Death himself, much more powerful than Castiel, couldn’t erase Sam’s memories, but it’s confirmed in canon in Man’s Best Friend with Benefits when a spell is cast to make Sam and Dean relive their worst memories and we see Sam in Hell. Sam relived it because the memory remained. Furthermore, in order for Sam to have no memory left whatsoever, he would need to have not just the memories removed but his mind and memories of season 7 manipulated and erased (the hallucinations and his memories of them, or his memories of reacting to them, that is) to not remember anything. Think about it. Death himself said that he couldn’t just erase Sam’s Hell. It is also canon that when Sam’s soul was returned, it was, “…flayed to the raw nerve.”  Saying that Sam did not go through the trauma that he did goes directly against canon. For one, upon having his mental wall broken, the product of Sam’s memories being unleashed was Sam entering a comatose state. I don’t think “not even being tortured for a week,” can do that. Nor does it follow through with Sam’s vivid Hellucinations, the seizure he experienced when he unlocked what felt like “a week, more or less” (not even a week doesn’t fit with that 18 months x 10 years he was there for). We know that Cas transferred the crazy to him, the part that was killing him (I guess you could simplify it to his hellucinations). But it is canon that his memories were there to stay. Also, just a notable mention, but Sam took on his Hell memories when he could have just stayed inside his own head and been happy and at peace because: “You know me. I’m not leaving my brother alone out there.” Sam remembers that they are currently up against Castiel and Raphael and that Purgatory is going to be opened, so he chooses to remember in order to help in the fight.”

<EDIT: View Death, in this interaction:

DEAN: I understand that it’s… damaged.

DEATH: Try flayed… to the raw nerve.

DEAN: Well, is there any way that you could, uh- I don’t know, hack the Hell part off?

DEATH: Dean, Dean, Dean. What do you think the soul is? Some pie you can slice? The soul can be bludgeoned, tortured, but never broken by me.

DEAN: Well, there’s gotta be something.

DEATH: Maybe. I can’t erase Sam’s Hell, but I can put it behind a wall, if you will.

DEAN: A wall?

DEATH: In his mind. A dam to hold back the tide. Nasty, those memories; you don’t want to know what they’ll do to him- believe me. EDIT>

Like you do, I agree that Dean’s time in Hell should be addressed this episode. Though they might not say anything. They didn’t say anything about Sam’s trauma when Sam went to Hell in season 8 to save an innocent soul. So the worry is still there. I have faith that there will be at least some mention of it.

ok but this post isnt about whether sam tried to make dean open up about his time in hell……………………that was like 10 years ago………………what this is about is that the show in general never seemed to address dean’s time in hell and brushed it under the rug as if dean’s trauma isnt important………….i know full well that dean doesnt like to open up and talk about these things and thats not what this post was initially about………..im trying to say that sam’s time in hell always seems to be the “big” talk on this show and the writers have brought up sams “trauma” from the stuff he experienced in hell and based numerous seasons off of that (as if its not enough that this whole show is already centered around him)……i get that you’re trying to make a valid argument but honestly this is for people that are bitter and that have had enough of hearing about sams problems and want deans problems to be addressed and be as valid as sams problems…………and the fact that youre saying “they didnt address sams trauma when he went to hell to save an innocent soul” well they’ve addressed literally every single problem sam has had on this show from like day 1 and never seem to think that anything dean does is worth talking about and again this is not about the fact that dean doesnt like to talk about his feelings even if hes suffering this is about the WRITERS needing to shed light to his suffering and not betray their own storyline that they wrote……………this is about people making fun of dean when he FINALLY does upon up……………..this is about making dean feel like hes not manly enough when he talks about his feelings and traumas but when sam does it everyone is so proud of him for it……………..also why make dean go to hell and suffer for 40 years if youre just gonna give importance to sams time in hell??????? whats the point??????? once again defending sam on a post that has NOTHING to do with him………..like yall cant even give dean!girls the space to be bitter……………..

First of all, this post did have to do with Sam. He was brought up earlier when someone said, “And Dean didn’t have anyone to help him when he came back, no support, nothing–Sam spent the whole time after Dean came back betraying him, lying to him, making him feel like crap, calling him “weak” and rolling his eyes on one of the few occasions Dean tried to talk with him about it.(not to mention the number of times other people “boo hoo’d” about it), whereas, as usual, Sam had Dean, who tried to help deal with the effects.” That is what I wanted to address. Everything I said was relevant to that. In fact, that is how I started off my point. I was defending Sam on a post where he was just demeaned and insulted. 

If you feel that the show never talked about Dean’s time in Hell enough, then I get that. Some of that does have to do with Dean not liking to open up about it a lot, but aside from that, if you all think that Dean’s time in Hell needs to be addressed more (and I suppose there are missed opportunities, like when Dean was a demon he could have made mention of his time in Hell or something- unless he did but I don’t recall it, though there has been mentions of it) and you didn’t find what you got from the show to be satisfactory based on the fact that he was there for 40 freaking years, then that’s your opinion and it’s not at all unreasonable that you want it to be addressed. I stated that I want it to be addressed myself- and I’m sure it will be. They made it clear that Dean’s trauma is important in seasons 4 and 5, and you might say 3 because of the things we learned and the horror expressed at the possibility Dean was going to Hell (plus the scene at the end of season 3), and for Sam in seasons 6 and 7. The reason Sam’s Hell and post-Hell got more attention is because of its effect on Sam. Dean has PTSD and nightmares and was traumatized, but Sam (because he was tortured longer) ended up with that and hallucinations and insomnia, which proved to be a major factor to how things played out in those two seasons. However, both were greatly harmed and Dean has to carry the guilt of having been tortured and torturing other souls, which was stressed and addressed when it was completely relevant to events of the show. 

You also said Sam’s “trauma” as if you are doubting there was any real trauma and said that the entire show is centered around him. That’s not quite the case. You’ll hear Sam fans say that the show is centered around Dean and Dean fans say that the show is centered around Sam to further victimize each. However, considering they are both main characters and both have major plot lines the show is centered around, let’s look at the facts here: Dean’s point of view is the most open, cut and clean. The show takes things for Dean’s word more often than Sam’s, and then when something happens, it puts all of the blame on Sam. People accept that the blame is entirely on Sam because the characters say it is. That’s not analyzing the actions themselves, though, so whether or not something is Sam’s fault is up to the viewer’s interpretation of the actions and choices. This is taken away when the show seems to establish something as an absolute truth.

Dean’s problems in the show are addressed and made as valid as Sam’s problems. As I said, he does have a plotline in the show. Dean’s in season 10 was the main plot. The other characters’ had theirs shaped around that. Dean in season 9 had to make the decision whether or not to trick Sam into being possessed and then lie about it, and he took on the Mark, which we saw affecting him for the latter half of the season. Dean in season 8 had the purgatory plotline. That overpowered Sam’s Amelia plotline and most people antagonized Sam for it. The show showed us that. Season 7 had dean dealing with the emotional fallout of everything happening around him- like bobby said in episode 2: “Of course. Yeah. You just lost one of the best friends you ever had, your brother’s in the bell jar, and Purgatory’s most wanted are surfing the sewer lines, but yeah, yeah, I get it. You’re – you’re fine.” Dean had to deal with Sam not having his soul and trying to get it back with someone he didn’t think was really his brother and not being able to really trust Cas, and then obviously season 5 and below. Those are Dean’s problems, and they do oftentimes reflect back to his own trauma while adding on more. Not all of his trauma relates to hell, as they’ve also made clear. Also, Sam’s trauma wasn’t brought up again until this season when it actually became relevant to events of the show.

Sam’s storylines aren’t taking anything away from Dean’s. They are actually showing the audience more of what Dean is going through and how Dean is affected by everything happening that season. Sam’s trauma is brought up when it is relevant to the storyline, just like Dean’s is. That’s not to say that they couldn’t maybe throw in a little something every now and again, it would go appreciated by the audience. 

“and the fact that youre saying “they didnt address sams trauma when he went to hell to save an innocent soul” well they’ve addressed literally every single problem sam has had on this show from like day 1 and never seem to think that anything dean does is worth talking about”

The fact that i brought that up was relevant to the original point that was earlier made. They said that they can’t just have dean go back to Hell without talking about his trauma when they did the exact same thing to Sam. However, I have zero doubts that they’re going to at least mention it. and based off the promo pictures, Dean’s not gonna have an easy time. I’m almost confident it will be brought up in some way. They do actually seem to thin k that things that Dean has done are worth talking about on the show. But as a Dean fan, you’re naturally going to feel that there’s too much talk of Sam’s traumas (since you don’t care about him as much) and not enough of Dean’s. It’s like how I wanted less of that angel-demon buddy thing this season and for the show to focus on things we didn’t already f’ing know, but some other people liked that angel and mourned his death, and maybe they didn’t have the information discussed straight in their mind. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen the Dean fans say the show is entirely centered around Sam. I’ve seen vice-versa, too. It’s a common perspective coming from both sides but it’s merely perspective-based inference and not fact. Sam still has problems that need to be and are going to be addressed,dean’s problems that should also be addressed notwithstanding. Dean’s problems have been, are, and will be addressed. 

I don’t think the writers are going to neglect to shed light on Dean’s suffering this upcoming episode. It’s a valid worry, don’t get me wrong, but if they’re not doing it to Sam then they’re not doing it to Dean as far as the Winchesters and their trauma goes. However, if the episode is more focused on Sam’s trauma, that is because he is back with his own torturer under similar circumstances to before- and he’ll be in Hell while Dean is trying to get in. We should not complain if Sam’s trauma is in the spotlight more than Dean’s, but only ask that it be acknowledged, as the original post is saying it won’t be. 

“this is about people making fun of dean when he FINALLY does upon up……………..this is about making dean feel like hes not manly enough when he talks about his feelings and traumas but when sam does it everyone is so proud of him for it”

Then those people can shove it. Attacking someone’s masculinity because they show emotion is shitty. But they might say something like, “Dean always talks about how he doesn’t like showing his emotions and stuff but he’s the most emotional one on this show,” which is a different argument entirely. Also, yeah, we have the right to be proud of Sam for opening up about things. But then we also end up feeling the same about when dean does it. Are you sure it’s everyone? You might be looking at one person who says they’re proud of Sam for opening up about something and then see a post from a hater who insults Dean for doing the same thing, but those are two separate people and do not speak for the entirety of a fandom. you have seen these things, made a connection, and internalized it as double standards. 

Address the haters when you mean to, and refer to “everyone” as the people that do this. It’s insulting when people use stereotypes because of other people’s words.

“also why make dean go to hell and suffer for 40 years if youre just gonna give importance to sams time in hell??????? whats the point???????”

The writers didn’t have plans for Sam to go to Hell and come back traumatized. They sent Dean to hell and he came back traumatized, and they did not do it with the intent to further the depth of Sam’s. That point doesn’t hold. 

I’m sorry that you feel I’ve invaded your space, but it came across my dash and Sam was directly insulted and it’s not in me to neglect Sam defense when I think something calls for it. 

Take it from a Sam fan- the majority of us don’t exactly miss all the crap that has happened to Dean. Nobody should try to say that what he’s been through has not been harmful or traumatizing, either, just because Sam’s was arguably more in some cases, but Dean’s also has been. Once again, I’m in full agreement with the overall purpose of the post, which was to express that if Dean’s trauma wasn’t addressed that they’re neglecting an important plot element regarding Dean’s character. I agree on that. I did not, however, agree on the comments made about Sam. My purpose in commenting was to refute them. I addressed those things specifically. I started out with: “Sam was supportive of Dean when Dean came back from Hell,” and established my point from there. then I said, “The point is that Sam didn’t just “call Dean weak and roll his eyes at him.” I addressed another point the person made regarding Sam: “It’s so ridiculous how they try to ignore Dean’s time in Hell which is arguably more important to the storyline than Sam’s time in Hell,” with, “Sam’s time in Hell is actually incredibly relevant to this storyline,” and actually defended that Dean’s is also and that the main point of the post is still relevant without undermining Sam’s storyline. I provided further proof that Sam’s storyline and trauma are important and relevant to the show, alongside Dean’s. 

I hope I haven’t ruined your day (and I totally understand getting the bitter stuff out, man), but maybe you can take this in a positive light and try to relieve your worry some, and if (or when) they do address Dean’s trauma, remember this post and take it as proof that there’s still hope in the writers’ room. I’m sorry if you’re bothered too much by this response, but I did my best to stay respectable and keep my claims factual. Personally, I found this to be very educational. Optimism, hope, and faith in things that may have let you down before isn’t a bad thing. I wish you good luck on your Dean stuff.

I
find it very interesting that the expression of negativity toward the writers’
very obvious hyper focus on Sam’s suffering at the expense of the exploration
of Dean’s suffering elicited not one, but two separate two-thousand word
filibuster-like replies, mostly in response to a couple of passing remarks
regarding Sam’s canon lack of empathy
when it comes to Dean’s trauma.

Apparently
people aren’t allowed to express any dissenting opinions about Sam whatsoever
without someone coming out of the woodwork to defend any and all of his transgressions.
It’s almost as though Sam is thought by some in this fandom to be this perfect being who has never
made a mistake and that the suggestion of anything otherwise is blasphemy.

Sam asked again and again for Dean to join him and Ruby in saving the world- the only plausible way to do it 

I
don’t know if you were paying attention, but Sam working with Ruby in season
four did not, in fact, save the world. It did the exact opposite by starting Armageddon.
Ruby was manipulating Sam the whole
time. When Sam killed Lilith, he did exactly
what Ruby wanted him to do. She said so in Lucifer Rising. And why? Because
killing Lilith was the final seal that needed to be broken in order to let Lucifer out
of the Cage. Later, in

Two Minutes to Midnight, it was revealed that drinking demon
blood was necessary to make Sam a more stable vessel for Lucifer.

Ruby
had an agenda and that agenda had jack all to do with saving the world and everything to do with helping Sam become the vessel of Satan.

Dean perceived Sam working with Ruby as a betrayal, but it wasn’t

How
wasn’t it a betrayal? Sam choosing Ruby over Dean is the very definition of betrayal.

Sam and Dean were lead to believe that killing Lilith would prevent the apocalypse

Yes. Exactly. That’s the point. The moment Sam chose to kill Lilith, Sam
made a grave mistake.

Sam wanted to do it because he had powers that could kill her and was the only one willing to do it that was powerful enough to, since the demon-killing knife wouldn’t have worked on the First Demon like it wouldn’t work on a Knight of Hell- same reason it was Dean who killed Abaddon and not Sam

Again.
That doesn’t mean that Sam killing Lilith was a good thing. It wasn’t. It was a
snafu of biblical proportions (literally). By thinking he was the only one “strong
enough” to kill Lilith, Sam let his pride get in the way. Because he had the power,
he thought his actions were righteous. He was killing evil, therefore he was doing the right thing. Expect that it wasn’t because- again- killing Lilith raised Lucifer and started the Apocalypse.

Dean wanted to do it with Bobby because he thought Sam’s tactic was self-destructive and turning him into something “other”

That’s
because it was. When Sam killed Lilith, his eyes turned black. He literally
became a demon for a second.

Drinking the blood was self-destructive. Sam became addicted to it. He’s literally referred to as a “blood junkie” in canon.

It got to the point where Sam was lapping up the
dregs of demon blood from a flask behind a fucking Coke machine. How is that not a sign of self-destruction?

“Sam choosing a demon’s words over Dean’s”- it wasn’t Ruby’s words, it was fact that everyone has acknowledged and accepted that Sam could kill Lilith

Which.
Wasn’t. A. Good.Thing. Sam killing Lilith was not a positive thing. How many times do I a need to say this?
Angels told Dean that what Sam was doing was wrong. Dean literally told Sam that what he was doing was wrong.

DEAN: Why did an angel tell me to stop you?

SAM looks up, surprised. SAM: What?

DEAN: Cas said that if I don’t stop you, he will. See what that means, Sam? That means that God doesn’t want you doing this. So, are you just gonna stand there and tell me everything is all good? (4.04. Metamorphosis)

Sam
Winchester, the brother who at this point in the show was well established as
being a man of religious faith, was told that God didn’t want him exorcising
demons-and by association, drinking demon blood- and he kept doing it anyway. Because that’s how both pride and
addiction works.

The angels told Dean they believed it would be Dean that would stop the apocalypse- a half truth

Dean
is the Michael Sword. He’s Michael’s one true vessel. Everyone else-
Adam and John-are plan Bs. Michael is the only being powerful enough to kill
Lucifer. Had they not discovered the Horsemen Rings,  Dean saying ‘yes’ to Michael would have been
the only option in getting rid of Lucifer.

Dean is the Righteous Man. The man who started the Apocalypse when he broke the first seal and the man who was destined to end it. Dean-or at least his body-was, in
fact, meant to stop the Apocalypse. He was fated to end it though Michael’s consensual use of his body. Even though it would not have been Dean consciously doing it, he still would have been doing it physically.That’s
not a half-truth so much as a technicality. To say otherwise is to diminish
Dean’s role and importance.

Dean believed the angels -even though he thinks they come off as “shady politicians”- and took it as “I can kill and will Lilith”

Dean
believed Castiel because Castiel proved himself to be a trustworthy ally. Dean
never trusted The Angels, as a group, by default. In fact, he still doesn’t.

Castiel
more or less told Dean that he was some kind of biblical hero who was destined
to kick ass and take names, and save the world. Dean was inclined to believe
that, albeit extremely reluctantly, both because he trusted Castiel and because
why else would an angel —a being that hadn’t been involved in human history for
two thousand years—save him from Hell?

As
far as Sam and Dean knew, up until very end, the endgame was to stop Lilith
from breaking the final seal and releasing Lucifer. Certain angels like
Zachariah knew about Lilith being the final seal, but Dean however, wasn’t
aware of that. Castiel, presumably, didn’t know that either until nearly the
end. Even if he did know, when he tried to tell Dean about it, he was swiftly
suppressed and sent to an angel gulag for reprogramming.  

He did it in part because he thought Sam’s path was self-destructive and that the loss of Sam would be the cost of killing Lilith 

It
was self-destructive. It turned Sam into an addict and put him on the
path to being the vessel of Lucifer.

Dean is desperate to believe there’s another way that will not harm either of them and falls for the lie

Yes. Parentification and unhealthy levels of codependency wrought by a fundamental lack of a sense of self will do that to a person. 

Sam is aware that he, being the only one of Azazel’s Chosen left in the world, is the only one both willing and capable (because he has immunity to demons’ powers and powers of his own) to take down Lilith

KILLING.
LILITH. WAS. NOT. A. GOOD THING. Sam didn’t save anyone or anything when he
killed Lilith. He started the End of Days. How the fuck is that a positive outcome?
Please. Enlighten me.

Sam didn’t think Dean wasn’t strong enough in the sense that he wasn’t strong or good enough but in the sense that Dean literally did not have an available weapon or power that could take down Lilith

Sam never saw Dean as “worthless and a terrible hunter” and that is not why he didn’t think Dean could be the one to end the apocalypse- though he did think Dean could help end it- and thought Dean didn’t understand, which is why he kept trying to explain his purpose to him

Sam has promoted Dean’s self-worth over the years

Sam has never told Dean that he’s a terrible hunter, he’s aware -and so is Dean- that they’re both pretty good hunters” 

Really? Is that so?

SAM: OK, fine. You know why I didn’t tell you about Ruby, and how we’re hunting down Lilith? Because you’re too weak to go after her, Dean. You’re holding me back. I’m a better hunter than you are. Stronger, smarter. I can take out demons you’re too scared to go near.

DEAN: That’s crap.

SAM: You’re too busy sitting around feeling sorry for yourself. Whining about all the souls you tortured in hell. Boo hoo. (4.14. Sex and Violence) 

Well
would you look at that. Sam flat out belittling Dean and mocking him because
he’s suffering from Hell PTSD. I’m sure that did wonders with helping Dean open
to Sam about Hell. I’m sure it helped Dean talk about Purgatory and the Mark of
Cain later on down the road.

Sam did not choose specifically Ruby’s words over Dean’s but rather logic and reasoning

And yet this ‘logic’ that you speak of was proven, yet again, to just be a manipulation. Ruby’s whole plan and intention was to turn Sam into a Lucifer condom.

Dean wanted to kill Ruby, who was the only one able to get information on Lilith and her whereabouts that wasn’t an angel who would be unwilling to actually give information away at this point.

See literally every other comment I’ve made about Ruby. 

Take it from a Sam fan- the majority of us don’t exactly miss all the crap that has happened to Dean. 

Based
on the fact that you made the claim that Sam has never referred to Dean as
‘weak’ and ‘pathetic’, three times in your bullet points, when in fact, he has,
I severely doubt that. Based on the fact that you’re claiming that Sam’s
negative actions- which are stated in text as being negative- are in fact
positive, I severely doubt that.

You are not being objective whatsoever. You are,
in fact, ascribing to a very obvious bias, revisionist outlook of past events and making false assertions.